04
Jul
13

Heretics Indeed.

Paul Dohse Sr. has the unmitigated gall to call Calvinists “heretics.” Yet, the following is a sample from the comments made by those who regularly comment on his blog and attend his “conferences.” These people who deny the inspiration and authority of Scripture, the Trinity, the distinct personalities of members of the God-head, Jesus’ mission to bring glory to the Father etc., are Paul’s close associates. Additionally, like Paul, they continue to make outrageous claims that don’t even come close to accurately representing what Calvinists believe. Here is an example:

Here, this is as close as I can come to the Holy Spirit’s “mission statement”.

“When He is come, He will
reprove(or convict) THE WORLD of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”

Oops, I forgot, the Holy Spirit can’t convict the unregenerate according to you…””

(Who believes that?)

In the above comment, a woman named Lydia Malone is quoting a comment from A. J. Butler who calls himself “freegracefull.”

Then she writes:

EXACTLY!!! Those who will be convicted have already been chosen so the work of the Holy Spirit was done before the foundation of the world. Which is why the whole convo is MOOT with a Calvinist since man has no input at all. They cannot be “convicted” except by force and that was done before Adam sinned. It has all been determined. So why would Randy even be debating? What would be the point? It has all been determined. He knows truth and we are incapable of getting it. That was predetermined for us. We have no volition, remember?

What is missing in Calvinism? LOVE. There is NO love relationship within the Triune God nor between God and man. It is all force. How do they get around this? They redefine the word “love”.

I challenge anyone to find anything like this in anything I have written here or elsewhere.

Of course, I believe all has been determined but that does not mean God has directly caused everything that has occurred. He does not need to “force” sinners to sin. Who denies that sinners possess volition? Do these people relish lying or are they simply speaking out of the abundance of their ignorance?

One of Paul’s buddies named Argo who has a blog called “Unreforming Theology” denies both the Trinity and the inspiration and authority of the Scriptures. He wrote,

The whole argument of the trinity could be avoided by simply denying it. It isn’t in the bible, and so it seems fairly irrelevant. What we know is that God is infinite and absolute. Thus, ANY attribute of God is by definition ALL God. You cannot have “part” God or “part” infinite. Any manifestation of God is God. Whether one, three or five, etc. His “finger” in Exodus is logically ALL God.

There is no trinity. Which is why it isn’t in the bible. Argo (emphasis and italics mine)

I’m not a fan of Paul (the apostle…I am a huge fan of Paul Dohse) either. He is all over the map metaphysically in his epistles. But John Immel makes the case for lightening up on him a bit. The context he was operating in was exceedingly difficult for any one man…he was doing the hard work of going up against some of the most consistent and entrenched philosophies of the time. (Emphasis and italics mine)

Still…yeah, you gotta take his “doctrines” with a grain of rational salt and realize that on some things, taken at face value anyway, he just gets wrong.
Argo

(Emphasis and italics mine).

Lydia denies the distinction between the three persons of the Trinity in a statement that sounds very much like Modalism. She wrote,

This is one of those assumptions that sounds pious but has no real meaning. Jesus’ “mission” was to bring Glory to the Father? But isn’t Jesus, God? The Holy Spirit, God?. God is God. So bringing “Glory” to the Father is the same as bringing Glory to Himself.

Lydia

Yes, Jesus is God, but he is not the Father. The Spirit is God but he is neither the Father nor the Son. God is one but he does not merely “manifest” himself in one of these modes. He is not one God with three hats.

Another guy named James Jordan wrote,

Romans 8:30, eh? If any of this crap were true why is there never any mention in the Old Testament that there is coming some day a scheme of salvation based on predestination from before the world began? Paul is just Gnostic trash. (Emphasis and italics mine).

One wonders why Paul doesn’t call these people “heretics” since they truly are. You don’t suppose the motive could be money do you?

Such statements should make any right minded believer avoid these people. Paul wrote, “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather reprove them.”

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17 Responses to “Heretics Indeed.”


  1. July 5, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    I think that Mr. Dohse & Co. are like other ‘professing’ believers who, for whatever reason (crusade/animus/perceived wrong done to them), have become so blinded by the ‘whatever’ they have become incable of coherent thought. They will eliee what they want to believe no matter what/how much truth is placed in front of them.

  2. July 5, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Well said my Brother. It is heartbreaking to see “teachers” like Paul not only distorting not only the clear statements of other people but the clear teaching of the Word of God. Additionally, their followers’ lack of discernment is staggering.

    • July 5, 2013 at 3:32 pm

      I’ve come across another site where his blog is on the blogroll. Same sort of garbage strewn about concerning all things Reformed, bashing everyone who might be Reformed, bashing everyone who hasn’t yet condemned CJ Mahaney to Hell, and on and on. All efforts to remind them from scripture that we who name the name of Christ are not to go around judging the hearts and motives of others, just fruit have been exhausted. I’m thinking there might be a Matthew 7:6 issue. They even claim that Jesus, when he said that our actions/words proceed from heart issues (good and bad) gives them the right to declare the heart motives of everyone they slam. Might just be dust shakin’ time. My ‘you might be Biblically illiterate if…’ post was dedicated to them.

      Hang in there!

  3. 4 formerly "freegracefull"
    July 11, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    “All efforts to remind them from scripture that we who name the name of Christ are not to go around judging the hearts and motives of others”

    I actually agree with this.

    I want to distance myself from the “trinity” comments. That is beyond dangerous territory. I will have no part in that.

    I have put a lot of thought into this, and while I have and always will have serious issues with Reformed thought, I have become personally convicted that my tactics are just plain wrong.

    Some of the stuff written in the comments sections of blogs has really bothered me, my own animosity and belligerence is bothering me, I have turned into a bitter, obsessed person, and I’m done with it. Randy’s post “the intercessory work of Christ” was well written and honestly as much as my pride wants to deny this it made me sit back and “chill”. I will never agree with you guys on the Reformed doctrine of salvation, but much of what we have been arguing about in the past is ACADEMIC. I believe I have been led to see this. I might have called myself a “Calvinist” a few short years ago, just as Randy has stated he may have called himself “free grace”. I am in no position to judge or really even teach, and I feel like much of what I was doing was indeed just that and was surely based on my own self-righteousness and pride and nothing else.

    I believed I posted a lot of good stuff on my blog and like I said, I will never even begin to understand the Reformed construct but… I am done fighting and backbiting those who may very well be my brothers in Christ. Only the Lord knows the heart.

    Yes, this is an apology Randy. Try looking up my site…

    Both Randy and Paul had better realize they will be held accountable for what they write. I have realized this and don’t want to be wrong on even one iota when I face my Redeemer. Nuff said.

    • July 11, 2013 at 10:47 pm

      Formerly FG,

      Thanks for your comments. If you are asking forgiveness, consider it granted. I am keenly aware that I will be held accountable for what I write and, of course, I don’t want to be wrong. Still, I am aware that I cannot claim for myself the inerrancy that belongs to the Scriptures alone. My sole purpose in challenging Paul D. has been to try to get him to accurately state what others believe. Healthy theological debate is a good thing as “iron sharpens iron,” but misrepresentation of another’s views is simply bearing false witness against one’s neighbor. It is for this reason that one of my rules here is that a person must state his opponent’s position to his satisfaction before commenting on it. Paul has never been able to do that either with my views or the views of others he regularly trashes. I welcome honest differences and sincere discussion, but let’s talk about real issues.

      I would far rather spend my time expounding texts of Scripture and explaining doctrines than correcting straw man arguments.

      You are welcome to post here anytime you wish within the rules I have established for commenting.

  4. 6 formerly "freegracefull"
    July 11, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    And NO, I do not agree that Jesus is presenting his sacrifice perpetually in Heaven! LOL. Just had to toss that in there! I would still be very open to debate, just not the way I used to go about it!

  5. 7 freegracefull
    July 12, 2013 at 12:01 am

    I guess I would like you sometime to dare to post on such subjects as this little gem:

    http://www.reformedreader.org/reforming_a_local_church.htm

    “Hide behind your Baptist fathers”…

    Why do so many “reformed” pastors hide it from their congregations until they have enough under their “sway”? Yes, they do! I have seen it firsthand and know many who have experienced it. It’s just like “Amway”, everyone who has ever been suckered in by Amway has come to the “AHA!” moment when they realize that once again they have been duped by an Amway sales pitch.

    Why feel the need to hide your theology? Are we laity/sheep so stupid that we can’t handle the truth of what you believe? Has higher “truth” truly been imparted to the clergy? I really want to hear your thoughts on this some time if you dare tackle it.

    • July 12, 2013 at 3:03 am

      I read the article you suggested but I am not sure it was actually suggesting that we hide behind our Baptist fathers. The point Pastor Reisinger was making was that reformation is a gradual process. The Southern Baptists among whom he was ministering at the time this was written were embroiled in a controversy over the inerrancy of the Scriptures. Many of the members of local churches at that time had been fed on such pablum for decades that they were unable to discern truth from error. Pastor Reisinger’s appeal in this article was to those who might expect radical reform to occur overnight. It was altogether right to remind people that these were no new doctrines, but doctrines that had been held by the founders of the SBC.

      There is a difference between hiding one’s theology and hiding pejorative terminology that has been used to prejudice people against truth. My answer to those who have asked me if I am a Calvinist has been, “What do you mean by that?” Usually, after they have explained what they mean by the term, my answer has been, “If that is what you mean by ‘Calvinist,’ then I am not a Calvinist. Was I trying to hide my theology? Of course not!

      If you ever heard me preach or teach, hiding my theology would be the last thing of which you would accuse me. Do I think it is wise to withhold theological labels from the uninstructed? Absolutely!

      Do I think you laity/sheep are too stupid to handle the truth of what I believe? First, let me comment that I don’t believe there is a biblical distinction to be made between the “clergy” and the “laity.” My view is that all believers have been anointed by the Holy Spirit and are given illumination to understand the revealed truth of God. Not everyone in the body has the same gifts. Some are gifted to teach, others are gifted to exhort etc. If I believed the sheep were too stupid to understand, I would not have spent my life teaching them. I have spent my ministry teaching through the Scriptures in a systematic, expository way. I have dealt with doctrines head on where ever I have encountered them in the text. I have not gone out of my way to teach a particular doctrine, nor have I dodged any teaching because I knew it might prove unpopular.

      No believer has a leg up when it comes to understanding biblical truth. [Actually, I have met many Pastors that I think might have been to stupid to understand.] We all have the same revelation? Do some have a greater understanding of biblical truth than others? Of course. Some have greater gifts than others,but it has nothing to do with a false distinction between clergy and laity.

      My position has been that I never want theological labels to obscure the plain truth of Scripture. To me, it is of little consequence whether I am called a Calvinist or not. A person who understands theological terminology and knows what I believe would call me a Calvinist. If a person using Paul D’s definition of a Calvinist asked me if I am a Calvinist, I would deny it to my last breath. Is that hiding my theology? I don’t think so.

      I hope this has adequately answered your questions.

  6. 9 freegracefull
    July 12, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    Pretty much. Thanks.

  7. 10 Peace and Grace
    February 11, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    May 2013…James Jordon left this comment: “Forget the election debate; Romans, Galatians, and the gospel of John were written by gnostic heretics and only slightly revised before being shoved into the canon.”

    Paul Dohse’s response: “Well, nothing would surprise me anymore as this past year has been quite a journey for me, but where I would part with you on this is the fact that Christ promised the original intent of meaning would not be lost. Furthermore, our intense study in Romans has taught us some very confirming things that agree with the rest of Scripture. Nevertheless, I will check out your blog and see what you have to say.”

  8. March 4, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    Dude! You come across as very angry and bitter. I dont have time at the moment however your assessment is way off base especially concerning bible translations. It would be wise for you to do more research on that rather than speak in ignorance. I stumbled across your blög and you are certainly misinforming people. I dont know you or the Guy your bashing however of hes in error it will show. By the way why would you defend a theology where the man (john calvin) murdered servetous and many others? Thats like accepting an idea from a man WHO murders and tuen justifies himself!


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